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mirage

Same-territory TW jewels don't stack attributes

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This one's probably not a bug, but just the usual way of NCsoft screwing players up with carefully (not) crafted item tooltips.

Innadril Divinity Royal Guard Ring      Ring given to the royal guard of Innadril territory. Divine power defense +15. No exchange/drop available.

Innadril Guard Earring      Earring given to the royal guard of Innadril territory. Sleep Attack +15%, Stun Defense +15%, Water Power Defense +10. CP increases +5%. Cannot be exchanged or dropped. Only one effect is applied when wearing the same two earrings.

 

Based on these descriptions, would you expect two equipped rings to give +15 or +30 defense attribute?

On GF the A-grade jewels had attribute defense built-in, undeniable. You could have two identical earrings and two identical rings, and get attribute defense from all four (though only one earring debuff/resist effect). I just didn't think they'd screw this up on GE, both for the new S80 jewels and the old A-grade.

 

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1 hour ago, Emca said:

I don't think it's bug but how can we make sure? :/

Well they changed the itemdata/skilldata such that now you can have 2 earrings from different territories and get the whole effect from both (f.e. 2x stun resistance from Aden+Innadril; on GF only one was active). Which is great. And in the process, they removed attribute defense from the item and stuck it in the skill. It looks intentional (on the script side, at least; they obviously forgot to tell the folks writing client item descriptions), but I really don't understand why they did that. It's not like stacking attribute defense from these jewels was OP, and you can still take f.e. Aden+Innadril ring and get +30 divine defense, just not with two Aden rings.

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I searched some more, and came to the conclusion that what we currently have are A-grade jewels from GFinal, and S80 jewels from Freya.

Here are earrings for sale:

tw-earring-buy-a.png.73306b55337d144232e6615cb89ab0c1.pngtw-earring-buy-s.png.f7209dc790acd99ba061cbf855980c46.png

Here's how they look in inventory:

tw-earring-equip-a.png.ff7eec1dc2f0c9bf06ce0353c36c197a.pngtw-earring-equip-s.png.86dd000887b20c6acf9aba90986f5f1f.png

Notice the colored Earth defense bar on the A-grade earring. That's how they were on GFinal, the attribute was on the item. This is why A-grade earrings give attribute defense no matter what, attributes that are directly on items always add up. S80 doesn't have this bar, because the defense attribute is not on the item, but the passive skill it grants.

Here are the passive skills given by earrings:

tw-earring-skill-a.png.002bf2dd526e7621ff1138b5580bd203.pngtw-earring-skill-s.png.d6b6f2bb8eff95ac9f1b9fc60e64e558.png

See how there's no mention of attribute defense on the S80 (Royal Guard Earring)? So it's either the skill tooltip that's wrong, or the item and skill definitions.

Also notice Earring of Protection - Aden Lv 5 versus Royal Guard Earring - Aden Lv 2.

A-grade earrings on GFinal all used the same passive skill ID, with each territory having different skill level. That's why you could only have one earring active (even if you had two from different territories). On Freya each territory has a unique passive skill ID for earrings, with A-grade granting skill level 1 and S80 skill level 2. That means that if you have both A-grade and S80 earring from one territory, only one should be active. However, this is not the case currently on Shrine, as you can see above I have both active.

 

I found some threads from between Epilogue and Freya complaining about attribute defense on territory jewels being messed up:

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=208291

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=208388

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=208567
 

And then this:

http://legacy.lineage2.com/news/freya_09.html

When using multiple magic accessories with the same territory name, only one of these items' attribute bonuses will apply. They cannot be stacked.

 

I think what we have now is silly. The two grades of jewelry behave differently. You can combine AdenS80+DionS80, that's correct. But you can also combine AdenA+AdenS80, this shouldn't be possible. And on the other hand, it should be possible to combine AdenA+DionA. Plus, all jewels, including S80, should have attribute defense on the item. The move to passive skill came with Freya.


 

tw-ring-skill-s.png

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Huh I'm reading it third time and I'm still not sure I get it correctly :D

So we need just to change S80 earrings to work the same way as A earrings, eg. for Aden earring:

  • keep A earring as it is now
  • change S80 earring item_skill from [s_item_earring_aden_new] to item_skill=[s_item_earring_aden]
  • change S80 earring base_attribute_defend from {0;0;0;0;0;0} to {0;0;0;15;0;0} as A earring has {0;0;0;8;0;0}

Did I get it correctly?

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I was just as confused when I was trying to figure it out. I couldn't find definitive info on how they worked on GE, partly because they were broken in various ways through the lifetime of that chronicle.

The scheme used on S80 jewels, with unique skill ID for each territory, is IMO better than the old one. I haven't found out when they changed old A-grade jewels to this system, it's just weird to have both schemes in place at the same time (one skill ID for all A-grade earrings, and territory-unique IDs for S80), specifically because it allows stacking two sleep/stun/etc. effects from one territory.

Attribute defense is a separate issue, I'd like to see that on items. So what I suggest is:

  • keep A earring as it is now (itemdata), but change skilldata. Originally `s_item_earring_aden` was `skill_id = 8313 level = 5`, but on Freya it's `skill_id = 8352 level = 1`
  • remove `p_defense_attribute` from all the new TW jewels-related skills (both level 1 and 2)
  • add `base_attribute_defend` to S80 jewels, numbers are: earring=10 ring=15 neck=30

 

 

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27 minutes ago, mirage said:
  • keep A earring as it is now (itemdata), but change skilldata. Originally `s_item_earring_aden` was `skill_id = 8313 level = 5`, but on Freya it's `skill_id = 8352 level = 1`

Current skills in our data:

  • s_item_earring_* - skill id=8313, different levels
  • s_item_earring_*_new - skills id=8348~8356, all level 2

We can do one of these:

  • use s_item_earring_* for all earrings, remove p_defense_attribute from it and add bas_attribute_defend (Gracia Final way)
  • use s_item_earring_*_new for all earrings, add level 1 for it (Freya way)
  • keep it as it is now - (AdvExt Epilogue way)

Hmm what would be best?

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Now jewels from different territories stack - and if you have A and S80 from the same territory, you'll get effect from S80 one rather than from A (A has skill level 1, S80 has skill level 2)

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And what about 1.post about 2 rings?

2 rings from same territory must give 15 + 15 = 30 same atribute defence, it is? Now, when I equip 2 rings only one gives attribute def. 15, second none. :(

In discription is none mention about not stacking...

Ring given to the guardian of Aden territory. Divine power defense +15. No exchange/drop available

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Two rings will stack only if they're not from the same territory.

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Thx for answer. It is that way, but its not correct. Because description don´t say it, thus discription is wrong or element has to stack. Logically...  I only present my opinion, I´m crabby throught this...

PS: I try equip 2 earring S and S80 from same territory. When I first equip S then S80 then element is 8 backwards is element 10. So it depends on sequence equiping...

And I don´t say, none effect except mdef don´t work if level of character is lower than grade of jewel... So territory wars´s articles are very specific. ;)

Edited by pajislav

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2 hours ago, pajislav said:

It is that way, but its not correct. Because description don´t say it, thus discription is wrong or element has to stack. Logically...  I only present my opinion, I´m crabby throught this...

There is literally shitload of stuff that has wrong desciptions in client etc. NCsoft had it done one way and then changed it to another way - see this post.

2 hours ago, pajislav said:

PS: I try equip 2 earring S and S80 from same territory. When I first equip S then S80 then element is 8 backwards is element 10. So it depends on sequence equiping...

Because both have the same skill - A grade has skill level 1, S80 has skill level 2 so only the higher applies (that's the Freya way, probably also present in Epilogue, but there's no way to check).

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Actually I had 2 earrings - one effect applied, and second did not at all. When both equiped, first unequiped, 2nd instanly started working. Seems as intention. Both same grade, when server was GF. I think that tooltip is not wrong at all, it says only one bonus applies. It depends on translation and how broad meaning you understand (effect for same accessory / same accessory slot / for same skill / same grade).

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